Biscuit of Dewm MEEP - US, Cenarion Circle, World of Warcraft
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Author Topic: On progress & advice  (Read 171 times)
Red
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« on: February 18, 2010, 02:17:41 PM »

According to the official CC forum progress thread, we're #20 on da realm, and #22 according to guildox.com. Of course, both are imperfect measures. Cyrus the Wise appears far below us on Guild Ox, while the forums show them as tied with us. The reason we appear ahead is because we're getting Ulduar achievements (in our Icecrown gear!). On the flip side, Eternal Destiny appears ahead of us on guildox, while they don't even appear on the forum thread, likely because no one in EtD has cared enough to post something there.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17730424485&sid=1
http://www.guildox.com/go/g.asp?a=1&r=Cenarion+Circle-US

Apparently we are only the 17th guild on the realm to do Heartbreaker. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but I think it's something like "after the 7 guilds who did it at level, and the 7 guilds that downed XT in ToC gear, we are the 3rd guild to down XT in our ICC sets". Yay? I think?
http://www.guildox.com/go/g.asp?r=Cenarion+Circle-US&a=3059

By contrast, only two guilds have ever gotten 25 Firefighter (and 17 so far for 10man, Oro!)
http://www.guildox.com/go/g.asp?a=3189&r=Cenarion%20Circle-US&w=

~ ~ ~

:x It's folly to get too caught up in these sorts of things. A strict adherence to progression stats says that we should all quite and apply to Fruit of Elune. At the same time, ya know how the best way to judge your own performance is to look at similar class/spec performance and compare? By the same token, a good metric to use for our growth is to look at comparable guild/raids.

Mouthful of Justice, and Velocity, are two guilds who are exactly as far progressed into ICC 25 as we are. I know some of the Velocity members--good people; and MoJ players, when they're not dickin' around, also know how to play.

Cyrus the Wise also has players we know, a good group that we could compare ourselves to. We have plenty of Axiom and a few Ævolution members in our MEEP chat as well, and both guilds are just one wing ahead of us.

The reason I bring this up is two-fold. First, for some people (like me), a little competition helps drive us. I WANT to at least keep up with these guilds, whom many of us have friends with. For myself, I'd also like to surpass them by downing bosses as soon as possible. Ideally, all of us could progress together to Lich King by the end of this week; but barring that, if only one guild gets to make mad progression... I hope it's us!

The other reason is far more practical, however. Those of you with friends in these guilds, or people who have noticed them in our MEEP chat channel: why not ask them for advice? When it comes to personal comparison, it can be hard if you only stay in guild and raid. The only people in raid that Alluria can talk to are Heeler, who isn't always around, and myself, though Shadow is only my offspec. Likewise, as Ynnah builds his elemental offset, the only person he can really talk to is Aurturious, who plays elemental but only on his alt Isibella.

Over the past month I have actively sought out other Disc priests and Prot paladins to help me improve; and it's really helped. I've gotten good paladin advice from people like Kovy in Phoenix Foundation, Talwen in Malevolence, and our own Lexxe and Khyraa(Lothrumaege). For priest advice, I've been comparing notes with kind souls like Doggma in Velocity, and Doi & Avenahar(Talwen) from Mal.

Now then, I haste to point out that nothing about their guild tags makes them experts. You might be forgiven for believing that "A Malevolence member set it and so it must be right"... but Kovy's Phoenix Foundation and Doggma's Velocity are guilds that are right around our level, so you can't think that they're better priests or paladins because of their guild tag. Rather, when you see them in action or talk to them, it becomes apparent that these people know their class. If you can glean even one useful tip from them over the course of a conversation... you win the game.

And, let's be honest. My Protection paladin is undergeared compared to some of the tanks y'all have run with; but I think I held my own on my first Icecrown 10. Gear improves your capacity to perform... but nothing will improve your actual performance but your own personal effort.
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spencericus
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2010, 02:48:56 PM »

I cannot, in good concience(bad spelling is bad), let gear be the excuse for sucking. It's like saying you're in fine physical condition and you need a crutch. They throw gear at you, so I won't accept it. Personal responsibility. In other words, if your dps is low, go figure out why. Talents, rotation, etc. Also, IF YOU DIE AT THE START OF A FIGHT, DON'T BLAME THE GOD DAMMED TANK! Being a bad dps who can't hold off for a minute, you have NO business raiding. Ever.

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Kirien
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2010, 02:49:56 PM »

As Red says, just ask others.

Everything I have learned about Pally tanking, I have learned from Talwen. You could also say the same about Mist and Tree-healing with Tempestrin. Find out what they do, implement it, and then see what works for you!
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2010, 02:51:14 PM »

And, let's be honest. My Protection paladin is undergeared compared to some of the tanks y'all have run with; but I think I held my own on my first Icecrown 10. Gear improves your capacity to perform... but nothing will improve your actual performance but your own personal effort.

The same with Sylphi! It was her first time in there as well! Gear isn't an excuse!
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spencericus
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2010, 03:09:41 PM »

To add to my previous post, now that I'm at home and not posting using my phone...

Personal responsibility for things goes a LONG way with raid leaders. If you have to be asked to interrupt things, or told to flask, or anything of that nature... You're a bad raider. A good raider will see an interruptable cast cast and interrupt it out of instinct. Fix the problem before it becomes a problem. Reach out and figure out whats going on and what you can do to help the raid as a whole.
Example:
Last night I got an upgrade for my wrists, and passed it to Aoyi because it was a larger upgrade for him because I split my time between heals and dps. 50% dps versus 100% dps. Aoyi getting them was a larger DPS upgrade for the raid, rather than my own personal gear score.
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2010, 04:40:25 PM »

I do appreciate that very much. It just happened to work out for you as well because that brought your PR right back up high enough to get that awesome resto belt off the very next boss Smiley

We discussed this last night a bit, but as was mentioned, gear is NOT what is holding us back anymore in places like Ulduar and ToC. For the most part, your gear isn't really holding us back in ICC either. It's performance as well as things we can control (like flasks, food buffs, etc.). There is no reason to struggle on Ulduar achievements when everyone in the raid has better than Algalon quality gear. Negative attitudes do not help. That's not directed at anyone in particular, but if you don't feel you can do these achievements, then you can't. It's that simple. If you already expect to fail, then why wouldn't you? Remember, Ulduar was a 226 tiered instance with 232 hard mode weapons. The numbers are on our side now. Not a single person in our raid is 226 geared. The average is closer to 245 geared. Some are fully 251+ now with those who run ICC 10 as well as the normal 25. Everyone in our group can do it. It's going to be the mistakes we make that hold us back now. Not our gear. Remember this and know you can do it. You'll see a world of difference when you have confidence in yourself.

Meep has started to offer training for each class now. If you aren't taking part in them, you're missing out. There are people all around you willing to help if you just take the time to ask or even just listen some times. You can bet I'll be there for the shaman classes when they come around. I'm sure I'll be the one giving a lot of advice for our ENH shamans, but you can bet I'll be listening on aspects of ELE and Resto. I'm eager to learn. Hell, I'm sure there are even some things I can do to improve ENH performance. It's the reason I read up on my class daily. I'm always looking for the latest info on ENH. It's the reason I do the dps that I do. I don't know any spec that has gone through as much changes in such a short amount of time as ENH. Do you know what BC raiding as ENH was? Stormstrike, earth shock, and totem twisting. That's it. Now we are a priority que class. Here's the basic boss fight priority list now I have in my head while raiding. I think you'll see quite a change from BC:

LS_0 - Cast Lightning Shield if there are no orbs left on you.

SW - Cast Feral Spirit if the ability is off CD. (Use your own judgement for timing with Bloodlust/Heroism)

SR - Cast Shamanistic Rage if the ability is off CD. (with 2p T10 should be used immediately)

SS_0 - Cast a Stormstrike if there are no charges left on the target.

MW5_LB - Cast a Lightning Bolt when you have 5 Maelstrom weapon stacks - Chain Lightning does less dmg against a single target as it doesn't scale as well. For multiple target fights then naturally using Chain Lightning will be higher dps.

FE - Cast your Fire Elemental if it is off CD (This will also free up GCDs for other abilities making it very useful during Bloodlust/Heroism).

MT_0 - Refresh your Magma Totem if it has expired.

FS - Cast a Flame Shock if there is no Flame Shock debuff on target.

ES - Cast an Earth shock whenever its off cooldown and the above are not available.

SS - Cast a Stormstrike whenever its off cooldown and MW hasn't got 5 stacks - this does a fair amount of damage but more importantly refreshes the SS debuff on the target giving 28% extra nature damage (20% base + 8% glyph).

LL - Cast a lava lash whenever its off cooldown and none of the above abilities are available.

FN - Cast Fire Nova regardless of single target or AOE targets.

MT - Refresh your Magma Totem if there are 2 secs or less left.

LS - Refresh your Lightning Shield if low number of orbs remaining (2 or less).

Totem refresh - if all else is on cooldown take the opportunity, if required, to refresh your totems.
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spencericus
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2010, 04:55:39 PM »

I want to get with you and discuss rotations. I think my gear compaired to yours, I'm performing on Target(about 1k lower), but I want to figure out how I can do better.
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SaucE
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2010, 02:24:49 PM »

So Red, do you manually have to submit the achievements/kills or do they automatically update?  They still do not show our ToGC 25 kills from the other night.
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Huntur
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2010, 04:29:09 PM »

People I know worth talking to for tips on stuff:

Warrior - Ragz (Prot/Fury) <Malevolence>
Warrior - Momirmaster (Arms/Fury) <Chaotic Intent>
Warrior - Traegorian (Prot/Fury) <Eternal Destiny>
Paladin - Talwen (Prot/Holy) <Malevolence>
Mage - Caliania <Eternal Destiny>
Mage -  Casperz
Druid - Valisarrsi (Bear) <Biscuit of Dewm> (Yeah, I'm just about all there is...)
Druid - Celarius (Boomkin/Tree) <Fruit of Elune> (Tell him I sent ya)
Shaman - Prabhupada (Elemental) <Scruffy Nerfherders>

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SaucE
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2010, 09:35:11 PM »

People I know worth talking to for tips on stuff:

Warrior - Ragz (Prot/Fury) <Malevolence>
Warrior - Momirmaster (Arms/Fury) <Chaotic Intent>
Warrior - Traegorian (Prot/Fury) <Eternal Destiny>
Paladin - Talwen (Prot/Holy) <Malevolence>
Mage - Caliania <Eternal Destiny>
Mage -  Casperz
Druid - Valisarrsi (Bear) <Biscuit of Dewm> (Yeah, I'm just about all there is...)
Druid - Celarius (Boomkin/Tree) <Fruit of Elune> (Tell him I sent ya)
Shaman - Prabhupada (Elemental) <Scruffy Nerfherders>




Just had to quote this reply, it was the 1337 post on the forum. 


That is all.
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